Transcript 0:00 From the past to now, we cut right through. This is The Long View. [upbeat music] Welcome to another episode of The Long View. 0:16 My name is Ryan Welton, the founder of Oklahoma Memo, and this is Mr. Oklahoma columnist, Clay Horning. We're just done watching OU beat New Mexico 14 to six, and it was a slog like we predicted. 0:29 Um, and by the way, just a quick note, um, it's s- I've been in the garage all day, Clay. I, I feel like- Yeah... I am just dirty sweaty, so if I look unkempt, don't sweat it. I'll get s- Look at, look at my beard. 0:40 I didn't shave today. I shave every other day. Today was other day. I didn't do it. I look ridiculous. So, uh, so I mean, we were all focused on this game, so we didn't have time for dilly-dallying or showers. 0:51 I, I could shower in the morning. Yeah, absolutely. All right. I w- I just wanna give folks... I mean, if you watched the game, I'm sorry for, for you. Uh- Yeah... but let me, let me tell you what happened real quick. 1:00 This'll, th- this will be much better than the game, I guarantee that. 100, 100%. We are more exciting. Stick with us for this- Oh, my God... 20, 30 minutes- What a show... 1:08 and this will be, um, more interesting than the game, for sure, although there is plenty to talk about. Um, okay, so Oklahoma's touchdowns, they scored not early, it was early in the second quarter. 1:20 Uh, John Metteer to Hayden Hansen for a 29-yard pass. Hayden Hansen was like a, a bowling ball, bounced off of people. Oh, yeah, that was a very impressive, uh, run after the catch. Very, very impressive. Ab- absolutely. 1:30 He took four guys into the end zone. Um, New Mexico- Yeah, if you had a quarterback, you might have something with that guy. Anyway, keep going... you bet. 1:36 Two field goals from the Lobos, made it seven-six at the half, and the Blue Birds did come out multiple times. And they had first and goal both times easily, and well, I don't know how easily. 1:46 That's OU's defense they've gotta get through, but they had first and goal both times. Um, so there's that. Also, filter that into your experience. Keep going. I, I was gonna say, and also we'll talk about it. Sure. 1:58 Toa Fauve, uh, not impressive to me. Uh, he, he, he was when he- He's impressive on that late drive that might've cost OU the game... well, that's, that, that, that's because he sprinted. He's a sprinter. 2:08 Otherwise, he sat back there like a dead duck all game, and I, it reminded me of Metteer. Okay, so we keep going. 2:14 Oklahoma did score a second touchdown, 8:05 in the third, meaning those fans there had to sit in 98-degree heat- Yeah... and watch zero offense for a quarter and a half. John Metteer passed long to Isaiah Satania. 2:26 I do not know how he breaks containment, but he, he does it at least once a game, and Metteer couldn't help but hit him. Touchdown Oklahoma instead. Oh, yeah, he couldn't help. It was complete... 2:36 Well, uh, I'll, I'll ju- yeah, I'll jump in and just tell you about that. 2:40 They showed the replay after the fact, I don't know how many people were focused on it watching the game, and you had three defensive backs talking to each other as the ball was snapped. 2:49 And of course, they busted their coverage. They busted it so much that Satania had to stop and let it fall into his arms, uh, and still he had time to do that and turn around and run the last few yards into the end zone. 3:01 So- Mm-hmm... uh, not a great... I mean, I, I guess perhaps Metteer needed that for his, uh- Confidence sake?... confidence for- Yeah... you know, just to have done something [laughs] so his- Right... 3:12 stats are, uh, even more horrendous. Uh, uh, so they don't win the game seven-six. But, uh- Oof, yeah... it, but it, but there was nothing... OU did nothing great on that play to create- Mm-hmm... that touchdown. 3:24 Exactly. I wanna give folks some of the box score because it's going to be, uh, a prelude to what I'm gonna ask Clay about right in the beginning. Look, to me, there's one number that is everything- Let's, let's-... 3:36 and it ain't turnovers... l- let, let's see if that's true. John Metteer was 19 of 25 for 238 yards, averaged 9.5 yards a throw, two bad interceptions, but here's the one that I think it might be. 3:47 The team ran 32 times for 61 yards for an average of 1.9. Abysmal. Oh, I thought it was two. I guess they lost that at the end. Maybe on a kneel down, but anyway. I think it was the kneel down. [laughs] Okay, so, 4:02 um, my turn to dance. Uh- Yes... okay. Well, let's g- start here. It's the worst offense. I've been watching OU since I was, uh, five years old. Mm-hmm. Um, maybe they were worse during the John Blake years. 4:20 First year. Second and third year, no, they were better. Okay. The, it's the worst I've ever seen. I mean- Yeah... it's, it's just- I agree... 4:27 it's unthinkably bad, and I promise I've said unthinkably bad about the Sooners 78 times prior to this, and every time, that unthinkably bad was not as bad as this. Mm-hmm. It's, [laughs] it's just they're so bad. 4:44 They're so bad. I mean, and they were... They hit that touchdown, you're like, "Okay, here we go," and then they're, once again, immediately horrible afterwards. And, uh, so, well, we can go, we can... 4:58 We'll, we'll get to where can they go from here. I have an idea, um, that, that would be, uh, headline worthy and I think would make them a better team, and we'll get to that. I'm gonna get to that. 5:09 That's called a teaser. Yeah. Um, so there was a play that I think a lot of people were like, "What the heck?" on. And, uh, it was a f- third, it was the first play of the fourth quarter, 5:23 and it was a throw to Satania that was incomplete. It was, I wrote down broken up, but then I actually watched the replay and if he, if it was truly a back shoulder throw, it could've been completed. 5:37 But at any rate, why are they throwing on fourth and two from the 49 when we know he can't throw? Right. Well, okay. I'll, I'll tell you why. Maybe the confidence or lack thereof in the run. 5:48 I'll tell you why they can't, why they can't, uh, run for two yards at that time, because the, to begin the series, Hatten ran for four, had time enough to show us a little bit of something. 5:59 You're like, "Well, it's only four yards," but I mean, okay, Jonathan Hatten. Uh, maybe something can happen here. S- we don't need Lloyd Avant. E- Xavier Robinson hadn't done anything all season. Jonathan Hatten, okay. 6:13 Um, and then he goes for no gain on the next play, and then he hits Biers for 22, so they continue to hold the ball. Uh, and then, uh, 6:25 and then it's, uh, a throw to Hansen for eight yards on first down, and then it's Hatten for no gain. And then third and two, um... A- a- and then that brings up the third and two where they threw it. 6:41 Well, they'd had two [laughs]... I mean, Hatten had shown you nothing on two cons- and I think it was the line both times, but he's shown you nothing, and they just had third and two, and then no gain. And, you know, 6:53 I, uh, I wrote a column about the, the, the point was you got two choices here. You can believe Mateer is who you've wanted him to be 7:06 and go that route, and part of the reason why you might go that route even is it's our only ch- it's our only chance, I'm saying this from Oklahoma's point of view, it's our only chance to, you know, make the hay we wanna make and get to the playoff, do something in the playoff. 7:22 It's our only chance. If we become this, you know, we're gonna run it 45 times a game, even if we're able to win that way, that's not gonna make hay when we need to make hay, so we have to do this. 7:33 I said you can do that. Actually, that was my second choice, my f- but this was in no rank of what they ought to do. The first thing I explained in my column was or they could say to, "Now we hate it. 7:48 We, we, we've been wrong all along, and we're gonna have to run the ball, and we're, we're gonna have to build our... We'll have to run to cr- open up the pass. We're gonna have to build our offense a- around the run. 8:01 You know, we're gonna have to run it 40 to 50 times a game. We're gonna be that team, and maybe in that world, John Mateer can be, uh, well, whatever, 12 of 15, and he'd be effective, but we're gonna run the ball." 8:14 That's... Well, I think they tried to do the first, although they didn't run Mateer much. Mm-hmm. Uh, and then of course, uh, I think they did maybe in that, well, they had another absolutely horrendous clock management. 8:27 He, he had the most c- he had the most, he had the most carries. Oh, well, maybe. Okay. He went 10, but he had a 17 for 1.7 yards. I won- wonder how many of times, uh, that was not a planned carry. But anyway, 8:39 so I think they, 'cause he threw... Let's look at this. Uh, this is boring, the one we have to look it up, but, uh, so they, he threw 25 times. He threw 33 last time. He completed 19 of them for 238 yards. You can't... 8:56 I mean, he's not moving his team down the field- Right... but you can't hate him for his passing numbers, although you can hate him for his interceptions. 9:02 If there was one element of improvement, maybe it was that, except it was nullified by two really gross interceptions that are just- Yeah. Well, I think the second one was more on Parker Livingston. 9:13 I don't know if you saw it, saw the replay, saw the explanation of the replay, but he's supposed to finish his route and take his cornerback with him. 9:21 Instead, he turns around to block that cornerback, and that cornerback is the interceptor of the ball. It was thrown right to him. Mm-hmm. And he was only there because Livingston did not finish his route, so pretty bad. 9:33 So Parker, Parker Livingston, if you're keeping score, has two catches in his OU career and is responsible for two turnovers. And, and, and runs, and he may have caused one turnover, and he committed another. Yeah. Um, 9:44 and they, and they do run it, they run it 32 times for 61 yards. Oh, yeah. By- Against a non-Power Four team. Wow. Wow. It's just, it's stunning. Yeah. They ought to have a carry for 62 yards. Yeah. 10:03 And so it's just absolutely horrendous. Uh, and, uh, y- you wanna offer something for me [laughs]- Yeah. No, no. Yeah. I mean-... before I burn up this whole thing? Well, no, no, no. I, I- Oh my God... 10:15 wanna get your insight, and this is something you're gonna be writing about at oklahomacolumnist.com, and I want people to go there. That's right. However, um, 10:23 insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting it to be different. Your column regarding Roger Denny's extension of Brent Venables, uh, it, it was prescient, and it was, like, super keen. 10:38 It's looking better and better every day. Well, and, and the thing is we don't know how the season will finish. We don't know how Porter Moser's season will go. However- I got a pretty good idea on both [laughs]. 10:49 I do too, and that's the, that's the problem. I, I, I don't know what the situation is between- One will finish on the brink of the NCAA tournament but not get there if it's still a 64 team tournament. 11:00 And the other one will finish maybe good enough to get into a bowl game. And at this- Uh, I, if, if I... I, I've seen enough to say if I gotta pick a side- Yeah... uh, they win four or five games. I completely agree. 11:14 Dude, I don't know that it's more than three. I, I'm telling you, who, who are you gonna beat? They could be the new Oklahoma State Cowboys. Well, hey, Oklahoma State goes up. They won 59-nothing, right? 11:25 What if they win? And by the way, Oklahom- you know, it's Murray State, but I, I wanted to just get a couple of points in here. Okay. Because I don't know what the relationship is between them. 11:33 But wait, they have, they have nine SEC games remaining on their schedule. That, that's what I'm saying. That's why I say three. If they go, if they go- That's one more win... two and 10, if they go two and 10- Yeah... 11:46 can you pay- Oh... 50, $53.5 million if you're in SEC deliverables? 11:54 If, if that, if a disaster like that were to happen, Clay, I would submit to you that the problem isn't Venables as much as it is Joseph Harris, the president of the university, because I think he- Okay. 12:04 Let's talk about, let's give that five good minutes because I have Because- Well, can I just give you my thoughts? 12:10 This, this marries something I wanted to talk about Well, let me, let me give my thought So why don't you spit on the president? Okay. So the, the situation is, is that he is the overall boss. 12:18 The university is not there to- Yeah, but a majority of what he sees over is not the athletic department Well, let me, let me just, let me get through this. Okay. Let me get through this. Fine. 12:25 Yeah, Joseph- so the university is not there to educate students as much as it is to produce research that encourages funds to come into the university. It is a for-profit institution disguised as higher education. 12:41 Believe that. As long as money's coming in, as long as that TIF gets built, OU is fine. 12:46 That's why I told you before the season and told everybody else is that they don't actually care if Venables goes 2 and 10 or 3 and 9. 12:54 They don't because the new arena's getting built, the money is in here, everything is prosperous. As soon as it starts to impact money is when they'll listen, and that's not going to be this year. 13:07 Well, that'd be next year 'cause I, I think you c- you would not sell out any longer if, if s- two, three or four wins. Um- Agreed... and uh, but I mean, I would say keep this on the football page. Uh, now, 13:23 yeah, keep this on- Well, except that I do think it, you have to think about the football- I don't think they're failing on the football field because Joe Haraz is more interested- it's Harroz... 13:33 in, in raising money than winning football games. Yeah. No, no, I didn't say that. Okay. I said you have to look, and it's Harroz. Joe Harroz. Uh, so the- Harroz. Haraz Okay, so, Harroz. 13:42 [laughs] No, you have to- H-U-R-R-A-Z apostrophe S No, you, you have to understand where he's coming from, and it's not denigrating or pejorative. He is big picture, right? 13:52 When he is evaluated, it's not about how the football team performs. All right. It is about how the university is doing financially. Okay? But, so how do you- So, so- Okay... 14:03 the thing is with, with regard to Venables, wins and losses aren't nearly as relevant in the era of NIL than they used to be. They're just not, and that's why they want stability. 14:15 They're developing a persona, a persona that is character and culture and hard to kill. Clay, it's kind of like MAGA-like. They're easy to kill though. 14:24 They're, well, but that's the persona that they developed last year, that they said, "You know what? We're gonna go with that." Except that it's not true. 14:31 Sh- have two straight losing seasons and you'll find out that it's not working, and the stands won't... And I mean, I... You're saying it's less important to Harroz- To wins... saying it right? Yeah. 14:47 It's less important to Harroz 'cause that's not where his bread is ultimately buttered and, uh- Eeks, 100%. Okay. 100%. But that doesn't make them a worse outfit on the field. No, no. Right. 15:00 However, think about the internal pressure that could be put on Venables. Who's it gonna be? Does he report to Jim Nagy? Does he report to Roger Denny? 15:10 Or does he report- So you're saying Venables, uh, is less motivated to crack the whip or whatever phrase you want to put in there. Yes. Yes. Okay. 15:18 Well- I mean, uh, Harroz and Denny both- I, I feel like that's, uh, I feel like that could be true, and still it's an absolute reach because e- even, I mean, I buy Brent, Brent Venables can't be trying, 15:30 can't be spending less energy. I, I, I, I, I will say this, I do not believe Brent Venables has any greater, significantly more energy to give to his job than he's giving right now. I just think- I agree... 15:45 on big decisions, he's made every bad one, and here we are. And so- And, and I, I don't think, I don't, I don't know that he is bright enough to really do both. 15:53 He can either do defense or offense, and it's just, it's too big for him. Well, here's what I say. I say he's to blame for this debacle, this debacle that might go eight and four with a shitty offense. 16:11 I'll say that. Fingers crossed. Or that, or that might go four and eight. But he's had every opportunity. I mean, you wanna know what I... 16:20 I mean, here are the things that I begin to think about when I watch this offense. I think, do Biedenbach and Arbuckle hate each other? Is that part of the problem? I don't know, man. 16:31 Is there like- Is there, like- Is there crazy dysfunction- Right... inside the Switzer Center and we don't know about it- I, I would love to know... but it's happening? Is that s- is that, or, um, or, or is Venables 16:48 heavily invol- or is Venables so bad at empowering an offensive coordinator that whether it, whether he 16:59 doesn't mean to put him on a leash or means to put him on a leash, he ultimately is anyway because there's, you're, you're afraid to ta- [laughs] because the offense coordinator is more afraid to take it out of the defense's hands than it, 17:15 than he is to produce a good offense. I mean, I wonder about that, which seems maniacal and crazy. Right. I mean, how could he be? 17:22 He was the defus- defense coordinator to a guy who, I mean, Dabo Swinney has, hasn't caught up with the times, but, uh, and will soon be gone from Clemson, I believe. 100%, 100%. 17:31 But nonetheless, they work so well together, and the whole operation works so well together. Does he not? I mean, this is part of the thing. He knows what it takes to win. He's been at Clemson all this time. Really? 17:44 And he was at OU. Um- Way back when... way back, well, yeah, co-coordinator and then, and then coordinator. But, uh, but I don't think he gave one thought [laughs] to, uh... You know what? He wants to play c- 18:00 how often do you think he was interested in complimentary football when he was a defensive coordinator? I'm gonna guess- Not at all... none. I- He was inter- Yeah... 18:06 he was interested in holding them to no yards and no points, and if he allowed either, it was a failure. Right. Which is nothing to do with playing off the offense. And, but- We hear him talk about 18:19 complementary football now all the time because I... Well, I don't think having a high-powered offense is that important to him, which I think has made him deficient in his hires. 18:30 I don't think it's made him want the offense to score less in games. I just think that's a byproduct of the offense not running like a machine. But anyway, so you went to the president of the university. 18:43 I was going to say everybody wants to fire, uh, Mateer, and he deserves to be fired. I mean, he's failed, and, uh, I don't see him making it past the end of the season. 18:53 But, uh, so sure, everybody wants to blame it on, uh, Mateer, and I don't... I'm gonna tell you, I don't think he was good today, even though he completed- Mateer? Yeah. 19:03 He wasn't I guarantee, I guarantee you the coaches will mention 19 of 25 two or three or four or five times because they're dying to compliment him when, when- Yeah... when he's a part of the problem. But, uh... 19:17 Oh, I, I should have said this when we started, and I very much wonder what's the first thing, uh, Brent Venables says today in his press conference, which I bet you hasn't even started yet, but, uh, because we're coming five minutes after the game. 19:31 Um, and if it's, uh, "Yeah, we did, we did all we could to give him a chance there at the end. 19:37 We couldn't seem to get that drive stopped, but we finally did," if he goes with defense being the first thing he says, it's like he didn't even watch the fucking game. It's what, that's what, that's what he said- Uh... 19:47 at the, the, the end of the first half. Can I just add one more thing as an- Yeah... aside because I wanna make it clear. The... I think President Harroz is a good guy, but I want you to understand his motivation. 19:57 The University of Oklahoma football program, the athletic program, has an estimated value of 1.6 billion, tied with USC. It's es- You know- Billion Go ahead. 20:08 Uh Its estimate, its estimated revenue is 135 million annually. 20:13 Key marketing and revenue drivers, apparel and branding, longstanding high-profile partnerships including the iconic Jordan Brand agreement package valued ne- nearly se- uh, 70 million. 20:23 NIL ecosystems, One Oklahoma and Crimson and Cream, alongside the OU Exchange platform for streamlined student athlete commercial branding. It's, it's... They're all profit centers plus the high-value SEC media rights. 20:37 Getting to the playoffs last year was a financial windfall, a big success, and w- if... even if the team goes two and 10, that doesn't take away what they earned last year. That's where- No... 20:52 the president's motivation is. But no, but he, he... But any... No, it doesn't take away what they earned last year, but what they earned last year is immaterial going forward because- The money is still there, though... 21:02 Ryan, if, if they do not... Okay. Um, the reason why it's worth $1.6 billion is one reason. It's football. And foot- if football... If, if Brent Venables is even- That's what I'm talking about. 21:19 The football program is worth $1.6 billion. Well, the, it, yeah, you know, I make a little money on some other sports, softball. But, but- I'm not, I'm not talking about other sports But, but okay, whatever. One point. 21:30 But yours... You are s-... And I'm not gonna put words in your mouth because I wanna finish my point, and I want to, I don't wanna give you a moment to interrupt me. So anyway, um, I... 21:43 If, if Brent Venables', uh, career as a head coach at OU is even as bad as Gary Gibbs, they are not that team anymore. It's not 1.6 billion anymore. It's not sell-out crowds anymore. Understood. 21:59 It's not people willing to buy the jerseys and everything anymore. Understood. However- You have to win. Clay, my brother in Christ. [laughs] The thing is, is that it does buy him a full year of we've got your back. Oh. 22:13 It may buy him two years. No, he's got, he's got at least... He's got two or he may have three years bought for that already. But, but I, I don't even mean just his job. 22:19 He may be able to remake his whole coaching staff two more times because of that contract. Clay, Clay, I don't even, I don't e- I don't even mean just his job. I mean- Okay... 22:26 he doesn't have to do anything with Arbuckle. All the coaches are good. There's zero pressure on him to change anything. I don't think the coaches are good. 22:36 I'm telling you, I don't think there's any pressure on Venables to make changes. If we see it, I'll be shocked. You mean during the season or you mean at the end, between seasons? 22:50 In, in between seasons, but even this year. We've talked about the possibility that Ke- Kelvin Benjamin- The whole offensive staff has gotta... 22:55 I mean, at least two offensive coaches, at least Beatenby and the, and, uh, Arbuckle will be gone at the end of the season if this is what this offense is. Dude, if they go two- There's no doubt... 23:05 if they're two and five, two or six, why shouldn't they be gone right now? If they're six and six, they go. But if they go two and six, why wouldn't they just be gone right now? 23:17 Well, the SEC season hasn't started, so you're, so you're, uh- You- two and six... you're s- You've lost to Georgia. You've lost to Texas. Oh. Oh. You've lost to Kentucky. Well- You've lost to Mississippi State... 23:28 maybe, I mean, if that expedites the rebuild, then I would agree with you. That would be a decision they'd have to make. Mm-hmm. 23:35 I mean- And the motivation I'm saying from the presidential suite is to make sure they don't do anything to mess up what they have in deals. 23:43 You got to keep- What, but what would keep, what would put those deals in any kind of jeopardy? Losing. They're doing that already. No, no. But these deals are made annually. And they're doing that in our scenario here. 23:55 The deals are already made annually. It's not, it's not like they're go- all of a sudden going to lose them in the middle of the season. I feel like you're making my point for me some t- in this. No, I'm not. 24:05 So I- [laughs] But I... Harroz's mission is different than Venables' vision. 24:10 And when you talk about, even from your column, a contract that is given to Brent Venables on behalf of Roger Denny and Joe Harroz, understand when you criticize that and say, "God, do you guys not know football?" 24:23 I'm telling you, they're not thinking about football when they give him that contract Well, okay. I'm, I'm s- yeah, absolutely they weren't. 24:33 Because if they were, they wouldn't have put themselves in a position to be worse and have to stay that way longer. Right. But, but [laughs] but if, 24:44 if that m- but, but that won't keep them from having to get rid of, from getting rid of Venables at a much higher buyout- I agree... than they would have otherwise- Eventually... 24:54 because they will, they will not let him do this. They will not let him be a 500 coach for the length of this contract. They won't let him do that. Because it will, it will hurt the bottom line. Well, yes. 25:05 Now we, well we circle back to agreement. Right. [laughs] That's what I'm talking... Okay. Well- So I was just saying, y- everybody sees things a little bit differently. 25:13 We Sooners fans want to see a product that wins and that looks good, that we can get excited about. Venables, I mean, I, I don't know. He wants to see a great defense. Oh, if he wins- Which he promised... 25:27 with that great defense, the fans will forgive him. The fans w- the fans were okay- They did last year... with Kelvin Sampson's basketball, which was nowhere nearly as fun to watch as Billy Tubbs, but he won. 25:37 Right, right. So it, it does... I mean, okay. [laughs] Well, hey, look, let's just take a look at the schedule down the line. 25:45 I mean, we largely agree, but I'm just saying that, uh, you know, even in your column, you lay a lot of, of blame, if you will, or, uh, you know, uh, criticism on Denny. I'm like, I think you gotta include Harris also. 25:58 Well, he hired him. Right? [laughs] I mean, I've, I ha- the way I have to blame Venables for Arbuckle's failures- Mm-hmm... would be the way I have to blame Harris for Denny's failures. But, 26:16 but 90% of the, of... 95% of the things that will keep or lose Denny's job for him going forward is h- Denny, is the fortune of the football program. 100%. The fort- the... What? 26:34 I said 100%, I agree. Yeah, yeah. The f- but the fortune of the football program is not what Joe Harris will live and die by. He can get away with it. It's the money. But Denny can't. It's, it's the money. 26:47 No, no, I, I, I agree. He can just fire Denny and bring somebody else on. But I will tell you, if the money starts to become scarce, um, that's something that we could care about. Yeah. 26:57 If, yeah, if they don't sell out, if they were to not sell out every game next season- Well, it's not tickets... that would be a big deal. Tickets are small potatoes. 27:04 SEC media rights, marketing, deals, Jordan, the whole bit requires m- Well, I'm telling you if, because if 15,000 people... 27:13 'Cause I think for a long, long time you've had a long, long waiting list, waiting for other people to not h- you know, get their season tickets. If you go through that whole purge- Yeah... or, uh, and, and 10,000... 27:27 And, and you're, you're getting 75,000 instead of 85,000, or 73 instead of 83 in there, whatever it is, um, I mean, that, that tells you it... I mean, that tells you where you are. Of course. It's like j- yeah. 27:41 I mean, it tell, it tells you where the enthusiasm is, which goes a long way in political races. It goes a long way with where their business is. Well, and just, uh, piggyback... 27:48 And, and by the way, basically I'm amplifying everything you've written about because you've hit, hit nail on the head. Okay. Yeah. Let's bring it back to the football. I- Um, let's see. 27:57 It's g- I, I do wanna go game through game this year and see how your picks change. Oh, okay. Okay. Oklahoma, Georgia. Who wins? Loss. [laughs] Loss. Oklahoma, Texas. Loss. Kentucky, Oklahoma. 28:10 Kentucky beat Texas A&M in K- Where is it? It's in Oklahoma, but Kentucky beat Col- in, uh- I know. I know... A&M at College Stadium. Toss-up. I mean, I, I can't give you... But toss-up at best. 28:21 Oklahoma at Mississippi State. Depends how they do in the game before. South Caro- I, I, I can't give you the record, but I mean- No. Right. 28:31 I mean, if you're a hundred- If they, if they win that game if they beat, uh, Kentucky, they lose, they more likely lose that game if they don't. South Carolina at Oklahoma. They'll win that one. Oklahoma at Florida. 28:47 Depends what kind of season Florida's having. I, I mean, are they- They just, they just beat Auburn on the road tonight, so it's a good start. Well, but still, Auburn. Uh- Ole Miss at Oklahoma. Ole Miss. Who? 28:57 Trojan Cham- yeah. Texas A&M and Oklahoma. Well, if A&M craters and OU is also cratering, it's a crater bowl and you don't know who wins. [laughs] It's a mo- But, but if- Yeah... 29:07 if A&M, uh, corrects itself and is still, like, a top 15 team legitimately- Yeah... we believe in them as a top 15 team, then it's a loss. And Oklahoma at Missouri, it doesn't really even matter what happens in that one. 29:18 That's a loss. Yeah. So, um, uh, the thing is- Missouri I think is okay. And- If they lose to Georgia, they're two and two. If they lose to Texas also, they're two and three. But if they lose to Kentucky, at that point, 29:31 I, I just give- Well, let's give them, let's give them the games we don't just reject out of hand right now 'cause they're so awful. So give them the Kentucky win and see if it l- Okay. So there's three and three. Okay. 29:41 Keep going. Oklahoma, Mississippi State, and Mississippi State has a good quarterback all of a sudden. Let's, uh, give them that one. Four and three. Let's g- Four and three... let's be as generous as we can. 29:52 Four and three. So I'm actually more confident that they'll beat South Carolina. South Carolina and Shane Bema- Beamer are having the same situation that Oklahoma's having. It's kind of going down. Okay, so, so- Yeah... 30:02 that's five and three. Does that come after Mississippi State? Five and three. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Next. Um... Do this again. Right after South Carolina is Florida, and I think that's a loss. Five and four. Okay. 30:19 I'm gonna keep being generous and give them six and four 'cause I've... Keep going. Ole Miss I think beats Oklahoma in Norl- They lose... five and five. Six and four. Uh- Okay... Texas A&M and Oklahoma, I think A&M wins. 30:32 Okay, I'll say they l- they l- lose that game also. And if they win that game, they will have lost another one I'm giving them. So yes, they, they still stuck at six wins for me. 30:40 And, and Oklahoma, Missouri, either way, loss it's gonna be a plump- They w- Yeah. I've got them six and six. Okay. So let me ask you this next question. And that's, and that's being generous. 30:50 Let me ask you another question. I am of the p- opinion that it doesn't really matter if you go to Whit Neubauer or Bo Bentley, it's not going to be any better. 30:59 I see no evidence that either one of them would be any better than Mateer. We're just kind of stuck in the ditch. 31:03 Well, I'll, I'll tell you why it might be better, but this goes into my w- we don't know what we can't see. Right. You know what? 31:10 I've heard the coaches talk about, "Oh, he's struggling, but he's still been that great leader." 31:16 I think, uh, whether it changes on a dime or whether they've been blowing smug up, smoke up our ass the whole time, you can't respect, you can't respect the leader [laughs] that fails every time. So I don't... 31:32 And, and maybe they're, maybe you get another quarterback in there, the line blocks better. Maybe- Right... the running backs run better, the, uh, receivers [laughs] run better routes. 31:41 I mean, I, I don't understand what's going on, so I think that could be at play. So I don't know about that. But, uh, but I mean, I mean [laughs] it's just so bad. His first throw was an interception. Right. 31:57 His very first throw. Oh. And he... They can't, they can't gain yards. Um, what? I had something else. Oh, um, okay. This, I... We can talk more about the game. [laughs] I don't know if we've covered or talked around it. 32:13 Well, I think we've covered it enough for, for now. But, uh- And I, you know, we went off on a, a little bit of a tangent here, but- Well, here's the thing. So I have a thing that it won't shock me if... 32:23 Oh, I'm gonna say the one thing, and then I'm gonna give you the thing I was just about to tell you. Mm-hmm. Okay. They can't block. [laughs] Right. They can't block. 32:37 It was 4.2 per yards, four, 4.2 yards per carry against UTEP. I said, "Whoa, whoa, whoa. That's not g- that's not any good." Uh, the people wanted to say it was. Their coaches, some media people, whatever. 32:50 That wasn't any good. Um, and then it's two-point whatever it was, uh, against... I, I remember writing 3.1, and I remember hearing on the radio 2.3. Was I off that much? But anyway, either number, it's terrible. Yeah. 33:07 It's terrible against Michigan. Can't run the ball. Can't depend on it. That's why he threw 33 times. Right. Um, okay. Tonight, two, 1.9 per carry? That's insanity. I mean, I've... 33:26 Who is, who, who is a running... Who's the fifth running back? You know what? They had a running back I've never heard of that's not one of their top three who ran for- Nope... like six yards a carry against UTEP. 33:37 I can't remember his name, but it was in garbage time. He carried the ball. Maybe, I mean, they are so bad, and that is why. Here is my, uh... I don't know. 33:50 To me, this makes all the sense in the world, which if, uh, which makes me convince myself it could really, really happen, but it would be a shocker anyway. And that is 34:02 you don't get rid of Ma- you don't get rid of Arbuckle. You get rid of Bill Bedenbaugh right now. You make Kevin Wilson your line coach. Um, 34:10 and he can't do worse, he can't do worse with that line than Bedenbaugh's doing. Mm-hmm. But it means if, if the offensive game plan is being put together by some combination of the line coach or all of them, 34:26 get Bedenbaugh's voice out of the room. Yep. I don't, uh, may- get... 34:29 Less voices seems like a better idea right now, and a new O-line coach seems like a fantastic idea, especially if it's Kevin Wilson, who that's what... 34:38 People may not know this, he was a line coach before he was ever an offensive coordinator. Did not know. And so anyway, yes, make him the line coach. And so just, 34:52 they're so bad for three, for two straight seasons and this one. Eric Gray, good season. He had a good season. 34:59 I don't know how much of that had to do with the line or just spreading it way out, and he was, you know, that talented a back at making people miss. But, uh, just get yourself a new [laughs] line coach. 35:12 Make the, the, the folks putting the game plan together Wilson and the offense coordinator, 35:20 uh, which it may have been the case mostly already, but it would even be, be more the case if you remove Bedenbaugh's voice from the room. And, and do that because it, you know what? It does... 35:33 Not only does it are there good things to come from that, but it also means you're, you're not... The fans will lay off, I think, firing, uh, Arbuckle in season if that happens. I agree. 35:45 Because they don't see somebody on the staff who can take his place, unless they've got a line coach in waiting. Um, so that's, I think that could happen. I- I mean-... 35:55 the astute points there that I think you make- Can I tell you something? Two yards per carry- Yeah... against this team, 36:03 that's, that's a worse performance than giving up 48 points to Texas in 2018 and Mike Stoops being fired. Right. I mean, that's worse. It's a different thing. It's the DC versus just a line coach, but, you know, 36:19 it's worse. So a, a couple of points- It's a worse performance... a couple of points that you made that I think are really astute. 36:23 Getting a voice out of the room I think is not a bad idea But I do wonder sometimes about friction. I, I've watched enough episodes of Hard Knocks with NFL teams. 36:33 I remember the one year when Baker was a, a, you know, rookie with Cleveland, and, uh, Hue Jackson was the coach, and basically all the guys in there were basically working to sabotage him. 36:42 And I was like, "What a bunch of jerks." And, I mean- Yeah... you know, so you, you don't know what the dynamic is amongst colleagues. 36:50 Um, and you don't, you know, you think that everybody wants to see everybody succeed, but you know, maybe they're looking at Ben with the pen and they're like, "I could do that." 36:59 I got something else to say that, uh- Go for it... [laughs] that I hope people have h- hung with us long enough. The AD, horrendous decision. Worst decision he could have possibly made with Brent Venables. 37:11 He also made a terrible decision with Porter Mosier. We've been through that. He's failing. The head coach can't hire an offensive coordinator. 37:20 It's possible that for all the culture stuff he says, he's missing the whole boat on what's going on in his program because things are awry, or he's lying about it. 37:31 Uh, I would forgive him lying about it, but it would just, it would be equally bad that it's happening under his watch. Right. Um, but so head coach, um, between not good and terrible. Denny, terrible. 37:46 Offensive coordinator, terrible. Quarterback, terrible. Line coach, terrible. I mean, it starts with the AD and it goes down to position coaches. And who hired the AD? It's just, this is Oklahoma. Who hired the AD? 38:02 Who- [laughs] Why, why are we hiring an AD from Illinois? Well, you know what? If, if it all- Because he was good with numbers... football can get a university president fired. 100%. 38:12 Um, so but he would have to go out with the wash [laughs] - Right, right, right... which would be Venables, Denny, and, and him. It's... Well, I just go back up to my, my point about Harris again. 38:22 The reason why Denny was hired is because he was an attorney with a lot of experience in negotiations. They are very focused on the business part of this and much less so on the football. 38:33 Well, then they need somebody in there performing the Joe C role, and it's not Larry Nafee if he still applies [laughs] - And it's not Roger Bailey... been there for 100 years. Yeah. Right But, but I mean, they, they... 38:46 You know what? We talked about you can't hire a head coach. It's not optimal. It's not what you want to do, hire a head coach because you need him so badly as a coordinator. 39:00 But that appears to be what, uh, has happened with, uh... Uh, I, I lost my own train of thought 'cause my daughter was trying to call me. Um, but, uh, they... 39:12 You know, it's, you don't wanna hire a coordinator, uh, you don't wanna hire a head coach to be your coordinator, and, um, you don't wanna hire an AD to just be your contracts guy. 39:24 You [laughs] I mean, he had that role, um, he had that role sewn up where it should've been at, uh, Illinois, where they got his expertised, his expertise, and it still had an AD with who I hope was going to every game and bucking up the coaches and was a very strategic mind in terms of, you know, actual athletics. 39:47 Yeah. And Jo- So, you know, maybe they've just done everything wrong. [laughs] Or maybe they start winning. I don't think that's gonna be the case. 39:56 I, I wouldn't- I don't think that's gonna be the case, and I think- Yeah... I don't think we're gonna see a stat that, that just tells a bigger story than two yards per carry- Yeah... against New Mexico. Right. 40:09 I, I, and- I, I, I cannot wait- Unless it's like 1.6 yards per carry or 1.4 per carry- Yeah... against an SEC team. I cannot- Or no, or net negative rushing yards. Yeah. 40:18 I, I cannot wait for your column, uh, which will come out in the next couple days I'm sure, OklahomaColumnist.com. Right. Go subscribe on Substack, folks. Go see it. 40:26 Now, I want to tell you before we go my absolute favorite moment of the night. I just got a, I'm working on the garage, getting it cleaned up, and I got a TV set out there, and it's super hot, right? 40:36 And so I'm a little- That's it... 40:37 uh, grumpy, but toward the end of the game, I think it was early in the fourth quarter, a punt was coming on, and there was a substitution that was being had, and number 98 on the line was Lally Gallin- Gallagher. 40:48 I remember it. And there was another lineman who said, "Let's go." I'm like- [laughs]... we have a leader amongst men there. You know, and we- I just, I loved it. Well, uh, and that's just another example of 41:03 something's not happening on the sideline. Right. And, and whatever was happening on the sideline at the end of the second quarter for the second straight week was not any good at all. 41:12 I mean, they just run that drive into the ground. Um, and with, with no timeouts, they run the ball twice. I get the first one. You pick up yards. You, you put yourself in field goal position. The next one made no sense. 41:25 Are you not trying to score seven instead of three points if you can? So it's just, there's so much. There's so much. Mind-boggling. Yeah. So look for the column, folks. Clay Horning, Oklahoma Columnist. 41:37 We are The Long View. We hope you've enjoyed it. If you've gotten to this point, feel free to, uh, uh, criticize, ask a question, tell us you agree with us. 41:45 Um, we went off on a lot of directions tonight, but it really comes down to what you said. Or, or we're trying- Can't run the ball... we're racking our brain to come up with, uh, what's, what's the turmoil? 41:54 What's going on? What, what do we not know? What do we not know? Offer your own th- offer your own theories. Yeah. Surprise us. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. We might get behind one of them. Right. Yeah. 42:02 We, we may do an episode just with your theories. Anyway, I, I wanna let you go. You're in Tulsa. My wife is building some shelves out in the garage. I've abandoned her. I... 42:11 We're just gonna make it a weekend here and get this out. OU wins 14 to six, but oh, boy, does it not feel like so much of a win. It's worse than it was when it began. [laughs] Amen, man. 42:23 Clay Horning, Oklahoma Columnist. I'm Ryan from Oklahoma Memo. This is The Long View. We'll talk to you later.
